Regular Episode
#024 – Dragon*Con Skeptrack 2010
The episode covers a wide range of topics the show holds dear: the origin of MonsterTalk itself, the philosophy of cryptozoological investigation, the frustrations of reality TV monster-hunting, and what it would actually mean — scientifically and culturally — if a major cryptid turned up alive.
🎙️ Origin Story: How MonsterTalk Came to Be
Blake traces the show’s origin back to Dragon*Con 2007, where he first met Ben. Frustration with the format of MonsterQuest on the History Channel — roughly 55 minutes of credulity followed by five minutes of token skepticism — was a direct catalyst. The goal was a long-form, science-forward show that used monsters as a springboard for genuine inquiry rather than a “you decide” shrug at the end.
Ben echoes the sentiment, noting that whether it was TV, podcasts, or books, the field was saturated with “ooh, isn’t this weird” content that never went deeper. Skepticality, another Atlanta-based skeptical podcast, was an early inspiration for Blake.
🦎 What Even Is a Cryptid? Cryptozoology Under the Microscope
An audience member raises a pointed question: given that confirmed animals like the giant squid, the Komodo dragon, and the mountain gorilla all started out as folklore, isn’t cryptozoology essentially a way to associate with legitimate science without playing by its rules?
Ben and Blake both engage seriously with this. Blake points to ethnobiology — the use of folklore to track down real animals — as the closest legitimate analogue to what good cryptozoological fieldwork could look like. Guest Dr. Darren Naish (referenced from a recent episode) is cited as arguing that some genuinely interesting data exists in the field but never makes it into peer-reviewed journals because amateur investigators don’t understand the publication process or fear having their credit stolen.
Ben’s counter: no animal claimed by cryptozoologists has ever actually been found by cryptozoologists. New species continue to be discovered — but by zoologists, and they tend to be cricket-sized invertebrates in Namibia or Vietnam, not 12-foot bipedal hominids in the Pacific Northwest. The field is also hampered by its enormous ideological range, from credentialed academics like Jeff Meldrum to believers who think Bigfoot is a paranormal interdimensional spirit guide.
🦥 Orang Pendek vs. Giant Ground Sloth: The Plausibility Debate
Brian Dunning poses the episode’s sharpest hypothetical: which is more plausible — the Orang Pendek of Sumatra, or a relict giant ground sloth surviving in the Amazon?
Both hosts express genuine enthusiasm for the ground sloth — Ben notes that a remarkably well-preserved specimen was once found that appeared freshly killed but turned out to be around 14,000 years old. Blake ultimately comes down in favor of the sloth on plausibility grounds (evidence for the Pendek would have surfaced by now if it existed), but argues that a living Orang Pendek would be scientifically more important: apparently bipedal and likely a close hominid relative, it would tell us more about our own evolutionary origins than any megafauna rediscovery. The duendes of Latin American folklore — short, backward-footed tricksters reported across Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Belize — are briefly discussed as a culturally distinct but structurally similar category of small hominid legend.
📺 The Monster TV Problem
Ben pulls back the curtain on his experience filming for MonsterQuest, flown to Aquero, Texas to discuss the chupacabra. The show was effectively pre-scripted before he arrived; the producer wasn’t interested in what Ben had actually uncovered about the creature’s origins. The format — slot the experts, have them roughly match the script, close with “you decide” — was baked in.
Blake adds that the appeal of these shows is largely about lifestyle fantasy: wandering through old asylums, camping in forests with Matt Moneymaker and the Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization, having beers while looking for monsters. The actual archival and folkloric research — which Blake and Ben find genuinely fascinating — holds zero appeal for that audience.
🐻 The Rick Jacobs “Bigfoot” Photos
Blake recounts one of his early public investigations: the trail-cam photos taken by hunter Rick Jacobs in Pennsylvania, which were promoted by the BFRO as potential Bigfoot evidence. The sequence showed bears, then an “unusual” creature, then more bears. Blake’s size analysis and bear biologists’ assessment converged on the same conclusion: a bear with mange. The resulting YouTube series led to a heated dispute with Jacobs over fair use and tone — Blake acknowledges he was “a bit snarky” and dismissive, a posture he’s since reconsidered. The broader lesson: engaging with believers requires separating the claim from the person making it.
🎉 If a Cryptid Were Confirmed Tomorrow…
Daniel Loxton asks the crowd-pleasing question: how big a party, and what would it do to cryptozoological skepticism? Blake admits he felt a genuine rush of excitement during the 2008 Georgia Bigfoot hoax before his critical faculties kicked in. Ben notes that cryptozoologists already leverage the coelacanth — a discovery they had nothing to do with — as a rhetorical trump card, and a genuine Bigfoot find would supercharge that. Both agree their investigative approach wouldn’t change at all; they’d just be delighted to be wrong.
The “kill or capture” debate within Bigfoot communities also gets a brief airing: Ben points out that if a breeding population is small enough to make killing one ethically fraught, it’s probably doomed regardless — and you can’t protect a species you can’t confirm exists, as the nominal endangered-species protections extended to Champ in Vermont and New York illustrate.
📚 Further Reading
– 📚 Scientific Paranormal Investigation 💵 by Ben Radford
– 📚 Tracking the Chupacabra 💵 by Ben Radford
🔗 Related Links
– Orang Pendek (Wikipedia)
– Chupacabra (Wikipedia)
– Ogopogo (Wikipedia)
– Megatherium / Giant Ground Sloth (Wikipedia)
– Ivory-billed Woodpecker (Wikipedia)
– Fortean Times (Wikipedia)
– Parsec Award (Wikipedia) — Brian Dunning won one during the recording of this very episode
Note: ads inserted into the distributed audio alter the timestamps in unpredictable ways, so timing references in these notes are approximate.
THIS WEEK’S EPISODE was recorded before a live studio audience at Dragon*Con’s Skeptrack 2010 (in Atlanta, Georgia).
MonsterTalk hosts Ben Radford and Blake Smith bravely faced the horror of live questions from listeners — including Australian skeptical activist Dr. Rachael Dunlop, Skeptoid’s Brian Dunning, and others!
MonsterSwag
- Cryptozoological Figure Set
- Stretchy Shapes Silly Bands (a 24-pack of animal bands including: Big Foot,
Loch Ness Monster, Jersey Devil, Alien, Mothman, Ghost Glow in the Dark)
Music
- Monstertalk Theme: Monster by Peach Stealing Monkeys
Blake Smith
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